I had no idea that Michael Moore directed Canadian Bacon.
I didn’t know that either, although it doesn’t suprise me. I’ve even heard Michael Moore describe himself as a “adopted Canadian” so he must like the cuture and makeup of this ol’ country of ours.
Wow, I didn’t know/remember that either, and I must’ve watched that movie a dozen times…
I think I have heard/read that quote about his affection for Canada before, come to think on it.
He seems to mention in every interview with Canadian press, it is strange that Canadian press readers would not have picked-up on this.
Come on, the Canadian sequence in Bowling for Columbine is not a random event, he’s based out of Flint, MI which is, what, 1 hour outside the CND border? You can’t be that ignorant. Most people in that area are more more pro-Canadian than you think.
As hard as it may be to believe.
Actually, I know this guy who, during a stop in Detroit, attempted to buy goods with Canadian monay, and, believe it or not, they had never seen it before. You can stand in Canada and hit some of the buildings in Detroit with a thrown rock.
I’m sure that for every “pro-Canadian” American in Michigan, there is an “anti-Canadian” or at any rate, someone who just couldn’t care less about our fair nation.
Please, the Canadian sequence in Bowling was one of the most contrived things I’ve ever seen. Even in my hometown of 600 people the stores ask for identification when buying ammunition.
And the scene where he’s walking around a really decent neighborhood in Toronto checking whether or not the doors are unlocked? Jesus Christ. How many areas in Toronto do you think that’d be realistic in? Parkdale? Jane and Finch? Hell, man, I’ve been mugged at dusk right at Yonge and Dundas.
So obviously I thought the picture that he painted of Canada was a little optimistic :-)
Actually, my friend Steve was the first person I knew to check out Bowling for Columbine. And I remember him telling me about the part when Moore went walking door to door in Toronto to see if they were unlocked.
I turned around in my chair, and my apartment door was unlocked. So maybe it’s not bullshit after all :)
And for the record, you’re the only one I’ve ever known in Toronto to get mugged. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, just that you were incredibly unlucky. Especially at such a populated intersection :)
(Reading through my last post, I sounded a little bit like an ass – not intended).
Also, yeah, the Canadian scene in Bowling was a tad much. I regularly lock my doors, and I’ve also had a number of unfavourable run-ins with the supposed gentle folks of Canada. So the picture is pretty inaccurate. I’ve also visited a number of areas in the US where I felt extremely safe and local news was not all that bad (granted, they were the more priveledged areas, so it’s the have’s protecting themselves from the have-nots).
My earlier post was written in angst because Michael Moore is starting to piss me off with his Canadian pandering. I love this country, but if he keeps it up (and I saw this last week) Canada will end-up being a target of extreme American bias (we are bordering on it right now).
The message he gives has it’s good points, I will admit, but using us to push his sensationalist agenda will only do us harm in the future.
Oh, and go see Fahrenheit 9/11 if you haven’t already. Not so much for the conspiracy theory aspect, but because it’s pretty good on it’s film merits (artistic aspect, I guess).
i hardly see f911 as a conspiracy theory, hell “manufacturing consent” is more conspiracy theory. they didnt even touch on prior knowledge, or any number of ways that the US government funded and supported taliban etc.
as far as “factual” evidence goes (starts scratched record) read the 911 timeline: http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline
That’s my point. Moore has much, much more to go on but he just sticks to the topics and conjecture without delivering the meat of the argument. Chomsky delivers a punch that can hardly be refuted since his references are often longer than the written portion of the book.
I agree with Moore. I like his films. But, if you have a strong (and good) point(s) to make, then let the facts speak for themselves. It might make for less interesting cinema, granted, but leaving all your fact checking and references on your webpage, which, let’s fact it, the only people who care are us trolls, seems like too much of an afterthought.
I’ve read through some of that 9/11 timeline before. Moore should have taken more of his information from that site (or it’s sources) and brought forward some of those arguments rather than the 5min. shot of the mother crying in front of the Whitehouse.
As an interesting aside, given all the controversy over Bowling For Columbine, not one person or group has brought forward any litigation against Moore for any of the supposed lies that Moore’s been slammed for ever since it’s release.
the film is as flawed as all micheal moore films are, and remarkably in the same way. he is a dirty, dirty populist and that is not likely to change.
he has one thing and one thing only going for him: he plays the game. sure its a different field but the same rules apply, therefore the audience of the other game can tune in and follow the game. and as i feel the desire to continue this metaphor ill drop this useless aside here: think canadian and american football.
letting the facts speak for themselves is to me a ludicrous idea. “facts” dont exist any longer. the only things that dictates fact are popular opinion and repetition. instead of sticking to what really happened (which is far scarier than any “facts”, and very few people would actually believe) he went for the low blow and gave all sorts of softball nonsense to win his audience.
i personally don’t agree with micheal moore beyond some very abstract points (one of them being how amazing the ideal of America once was). some great articles were circulating through google news on the UK release of f911 on just how ignorant micheal moore is. the guy’s as much buried in the navel of middle-america (this is not a literal statement) as any stereotypical american outthere.
ps. in my travels in the states ive only met nice people, and when i haev run into trouble down there many people have gone out of their way to try and help. which is to say i do hate americans
I have a hard time swallowing that the age of reason has come to end. The pandering may cost Bush & co. the election, which is exactly what Moore was aiming for (and what I agree with) but when all is said and done, that’s it. When have the “reasoned” masses ever voted based on fact? It’s the paltry state of our supposed democracy that’s deemed anyone capable of holding a #2 pencil, is not in prison, and is of a certain age can participate (and I’m not saying this is necessarily a bad thing). Nothing is or has been mentioned about informed/unbiased masses because it’s outright impossible.
That being said, this doesn’t dictate actual and actualized policy, because facts do. Sure, they can be misleading (think, Powell vs. UN) but facts all the same. Repetition works, but only marginally. Eventually, people will tune out excessive noise (granted, they might be replaced with more noise – but the cycle does peak and trough). I mean, seriously, browsing through countless blogs/mefi-type sites breeds countless uninformed, but more often than not, seemingly informed opinions. You may argue that this is a somewhat securalized facet of society, but more and more people are recognizing the potential, and it will only grow. When is the last time you actually turned to mainstream press as the final say on anything?
As for Moore, I don’t think he’s as ignorant as UK press makes him out to be. As you said, he plays the game, and he plays it well. Credit is due.
i think its great that i ended up saying “i do hate americans”. that was pretty cool of me.
Haha. I thought it was funny.
Matt heading over tonight, you should come along. He said he’d give you a call. Not sure if you have my number anymore.